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Shandaren
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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Posting this here because I don't have Brewmasters in my own guild to talk to. Hope nobody minds.

I've been doing some thinking about high-level stat priority for Brewmasters this tier, and wanted something of a sanity check. Obviously as a tank, stat priority isn't just a matter of "X adds Y to your damage and Z adds 2Y, so you should pick Z", but I'm trying to narrow down what will make us most able to survive this tier.

For anyone just joining the debate, there's currently several schools of thought for BM stats.

Everyone (pretty much) agrees that the general way to go is:

Step 1: Get 7.5% hit and hit and "enough" exp.
Step 2: Get "enough" haste.
Step 3: Get "enough" crit.
Step 4: Start stacking your stat of choice.

The debate, of course, is on how you define "enough", and which stat to pick in step 4.

Expertise
One camp says 7.5% is enough, the other goes for 15%. While it's mathematically provable that at some point you'll end up with more Chi over a fight by stacking more haste instead of worrying about strictly capping your expertise, there's always the risk as a tank that you'll have a parried Keg Smash at a bad time and end up chi starved right when you really could use a Guard.

Haste
For haste, there's two advantages: More autoattacks (which means more EB and more GotO), and more energy regen (which means it's easier to respond to bad situations with chi for Guard or Expel Harm).

The higher the better, obviously, but there are some diminishing returns on this because at some point, you end up with more chi than you know what to do with. For values, I've heard people say they're comfortable with anywhere from 2k to 7k. I've been sitting somewhere in the upper 50% of that.

Crit
This is where the real debate starts.

Crit does one thing, but it does it extremely well. Crit gives you EB stacks, and EB uptime is your ticket to high Effective Health. But, it also means "spikey" damage - you could take literally no hits for 1 minute, but then get hit 4 times in a row and surprise the healers with your sudden damage spike.

Mastery
Mastery has had a sordid history with Brewmasters. The stat, intuitively, is good - more stagger = less damage taken up front, which leads to more "stable" health bars.

Sounds all well and good, but the problem is it takes A LOT of mastery rating to get 1% mastery. As such, stacking mastery means you take more total damage over the course of the fight since you have less haste and/or crit.

Up until this patch, Mastery was generally the weaker option (except near the end when people started stacking it heavily for Sha of Fear's specific mechanics), but this patch, they've reduced the amount of rating it takes for 1% mastery by 25%. Still kinda high, but notably better than it was, and a stable health bar is a pretty attractive prospect.


So, long story short (too late)
The big debate is if you should go for crit or mastery at the end.

This is basically the oldest tank debate in the books - take less damage overall, or take more damage, but take it more "smoothly". Monks are probably the best implemented "avoidance" tank they've ever attempted since we have so many tools to deal with bad streaks - but there's always that possibility that things go very wrong when you've already used all your "outs".

I was thinking about going more towards mastery (and some of my recent gemming has reflected that), but there's one thing that's had me reconsidering - the 2pc T15 bonus.

Basically, it gives you 12% stagger for 1 sec per stack of EB consumed whenever EB isn't up. Basically that means you'd alternate between high avoidance and high damage reduction, with some potential "gaps" in between. However, the higher crit/haste you run with, the smaller those "gaps" get until they vanish almost entirely.

12% stagger is about equal to 11.5k mastery rating, which is, forgive the pun, staggering.

With the 75-80% avoidance you should be sitting at with EB up, the chance of getting hit multiple times in a row is pretty small - and when it's not up and you're down to 45ish%, you have that 12% stagger to cover you.


So, my fellow drunkards - what's your take? Is a crit-heavy build going to be even less insane this patch than it was last, or is the "safer" mastery build still the way to go? How high do you shoot for with crit and haste with a mastery build? Did I miss any major points in the logic? Am I thinking too hard about a video game and need to get back to work?

(Also, hi).


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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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Thanks so much for posting this.


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Zulabro
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I'm the local keg tosser but I'm on my phone but I am definitely excited to dive more into this thread tomorrow. I look forward to broing out in this thread
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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Allright, here comes the brodown:

After tanking some of the fights in normal mode I'm leaning towards continuing with a full mastery build because of the damage output and our tier set. Obviously bosses are hitting a hell of a lot harder than usual and most of them have some sort of mechanic for a tank swap that does high damage if you let it continue stacking (Triple Puncture, Hard Stare, Impale.)

Although mastery is good in some senses, I feel like if we tried to just get it as high as possible we wouldn't really be doing anything except spamming the hell out of Purifying Brew because each boss hit could (and probably will at later gear levels) take us straight to a heavy stagger.

I think if we can get our mastery to a place where we have a 40-60 damage to stagger threshhold or 35-65. I know that some who are for mastery stacking will argue to just get it as high as possible. Any more after that spread would be wasted in my opinion, because of our 2 piece set, we'll have an extra 12% added to our stagger which would take us to 23/77. This seems like a manageable ratio.

It doesn't seem logical to try and push our mastery to a point where if we pop those cooldowns we are over the 100% mark. Because of the 4 piece, we should have a relatively decent downtime on stagger. The buff it gives when you receive the free Purifying Brew is called "Purifier."

Now, as far as haste and crit goes, I believe we should be able to keep around 30%-35% crit and ~4500-5500 haste. This will ensure our Elusive Brew is always building up charges and it gives more energy regen to ensure Shuffle will be up. I'm definitely excited to get my hands on 2 piece tier ASAP, hopefully the bonus rolls will be kind to me this week.
Shandaren
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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I guess the nice part about the new tier is that we're going to have a lot more stat points to work with by the end, so that kind of thing isn't crazy anymore.

I remember musing back in beta that it felt like basically every stat possible was great for Brewmasters, and we might eventually see our "stat weights" as "1.0/1.0/1.0...". It seems I wasn't totally wrong. (heh).

Solid point on the stagger ratios, that's one angle I hadn't thought to come at it from. Higher stagger doesn't necessarily mean more PB use, although it gets harder to make "twitch" reactions on it when you're going by something other than "color". I actually wrote an addon that tracks stagger as a % of health rather than looking at it strictly as a tick amount or "color"... I wonder if it'd be worth it to have an option to change the threshholds based on mastery.

Your stat priorities seem to be about right, I may try something along those lines. Will probably have to swap some gems around, since I'm to the point where reforgelite hates me when I try to give it a list of priorities 2 pages long. Will have to see how the logs work out as people (and hopefully both of us) start in on heroics next week.


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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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How to monk?

I have been brewmastering since my RaF stopped tanking for me; and I have the feeling that if they'd been in this state during the beginning of beta I would have mained one for mop. I had seriously considered swapping, but energy was annoying and shuffle was half baked, etc. Now the only thing left that I didn't like is the behavior of the reticle for dizzying haze.

So, couple questions.

What's your opener to get shuffle, armor ignore, etc up at the start of a boss fight?

How often/when do you breathe fire? Spinning crane kick?

Any good weak auras for tracking stagger or potential guard strength?

Chi wave?

Any tips in general? Mmo/ej guides are in pretty poor shape. Any actual BM resources?
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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Opener:

Keg Smash --> Tiger Palm --> Blackout Kick --> On to jab until ~2 seconds left on Keg smash CD



Spinning Crane kick when you have 4-5 mobs. Rushing Jade wind if you use it. Don't breath of fire unless theres a metric fuckton of things to AoE. Chi wave on CD.

I'll give you my Stagger weak-aura
Shandaren
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Here's my guard group for WeakAuras. Gives you an abbreviated form for remaining absorb amount (428k instead of 428773) while it's up, and also the standard cooldown/ready auras.

Code: Select all
dquykaGiuHlPucJcP4uivMLk6wki7sLk)sPQYWuPCmj1YukEgsPPPcDnKyBQGVPsACcvDouP3Pus3tLO9PsvDqurTqvvpuLWevQQ6IkO2Osv(OqPrQukNevKxQsvMPcPBkuXofXprQAOcflvOspfAQk5QkLQ5Quv2l1FvLblshgXIvQ8yu1Kb5YeBwiFguJwH60K8AfIzlXTLKDJYVv0WfvlNuphy6sDDbBxv57kGXRaDEK06vkr7xu21EzK4LBJaJAAVTXyLriJqEzeiLOyMkwB8N(1I(4m6W7TmQfy1KTOMlgH1ZqUrwOAPvWWIg4KAJkiJXzYgjlDOS0ydenKXYKa5Lr9SiEzSkuALxUD72OmyoHbjq(3TrEVCsTxgPsFueqAV3quoC7w9vUCPLl3dh4EnEhn0rkgBTcgw0EzSPMlgbnPdaJbG8uSprde)Bu(ewB8I5SanhGLLgJEcRfailLgmxkf6mgaYdKlLscPs8Vrf7t0aX)gzKkb4LtQngBGOHCBmWKpH1gjHEAmaKxGPA)BeKlLscPsCsDnLnCP424yrbpUDYX4nwMeiVmgaYJVqaa)BuplIxgRcLw5LB3gda5bYfE)BeKl8EzeOyWfXj1UngaYJFwTJ0(3iFHaaEzeOyWfXyCOp5EUDBulWQjBrnxmQ4NmJkiJXgiAOS04keiQghK(OiG0EVJh4wV56gk1XtlThOuVXrdr5MrceKQvtgP8ATcgw0aVCsTxgBTcgw0Ezee2jFcRJrlrQbnIXm8OJASPMlgjbnXOI9jAG4FJGWo5tyngIIudA8DbNX1dxCoUlJbMQnMxiufTrgPsaE5KAJXgiAi3gLpH1g3Mqk9yJqYUqu0IAUyCBdpAm7T9rDBmWATcgw0E52TBJdOG6Xo5y8gdSwRGHfTxgb5sPKqQeNuxtzdxkUnYcvlTcgw0aNSXiKcKxiu5e)KzKtSw0reEzFCIFYa7JStvun1x1KnYdoq0qg5NZc0CaM352jB8YyG1AfmSO9YiixkLesL4K6AkB4sXTXwRGHfTxgBQ5Irqt6aWyaipf7t0aX7mkFcRnEXCwGMdWYsJrpH1caKLsdMlLcDgda5bYLsjHuj(3yGjFcRnsc90yaiVat1(3yaipTurumfd27mcYLsjHujoPUMYgUumYha9S6nwbjgBvLa524yrbpUDcTBmwMeiVmgaYJVqaa)BuplIxgRcLw5LB3gda5bYfE)BeKl8EzeOyWfXj1UngaYJFwTJ0(3iFHaaEzeOyWfXyCOp5EUDBmAYAuTLItQPyesbYleQyt4hbyClYnQfy1KTOMlgv8tMr(5SanhG5DghK(OiG0EVRuUD4614R5Y9q8xRpeVJgIsTrQ0hfbK27neLRXxZ96XBCpE84bkCP1rdDKIrfKXydenuw6f7VXbuq9yNq7gJqcG0bnPf)BKfQwAfmSObozJrctvrA1K5Lrqt0TxgZ1cqAJW65aUngPykWyVm2uZfJ5AbiTXCTaK2iSEoGB3gjqqQwnzKYR1kyyrd8Yj1EzS1kyyr7LrqyN8jSogTePg0igZWJoQXMAUyKe0eJk2NObI)ncc7KpH1yiksnOX3fCgxpCX54UmgyQ2yEHqv0gzKkb4LtQngBGOHCBu(ewBCBcP0Jncj7crrlQ5IXTn8OXS32h1TXaR1kyyr7LB3UncAc)iGyMkwB8IHtwdhx3oHwVmYha9SAjd2gJcm(wnzzP0qxwAzYtkzPmsLC(ov8t2578D(oFNVZ3578D(oFNVZpsjixUDMQ)drr0WrEHqv0CCMLYrSbIgId62AwQkIMpsjizP3plLlxU0LL2Jfww6hPeKS0lZsRi947IkZPMMpsji7x9TB3Oll9U7Ys5yeoYsfg0wZs1sh0mA(iLGqxwQWGmsL(OiG0EVHOepThVUHB91RxpslThQD0qhPyS1kyyr7Lr(aONvVXkiXyRQeiJmsLa8Yj1gJnq0qUnYpdSM(Crt6P249V0yaipgPs8Vrqyh)mWA)BKpa6zLXOaJVvtwwkn0LLwM8KswkJujNVtf)KD(oFNVZ3578D(oFNVZ3578JucYLBNP6)quenCKxiufnhNzPCeBGOH4GUTMLQIO5Jucsw69Zs5YLlDzP9yHLL(rkbjl9YS0ksp(UOYCQP5JucY(vF72n6YsV7USuogHJSuHbT1SuT0bnJMpsji0LLkmiJmsL8M5IM0tTXlV0iJujgJnq0qgJcLcGNW8VBJqcG0bnPf)BCSOGh3oH2ngltcKxgda5XxiaG)nQNfXlJvHsR8YTBJbG8a5cV)ncYfEVmcum4I4KA3gda5XpR2rA)BKVqaaVmcum4Iymo0NCp3UngnznQ2sXj1umcPa5fcvSj8JamUf8g1cSAYwuZfJk(jZOcYySbIgklLZ8T6tmoGcQh7KJXBCq6JIas7KJ3vF4WHnu4E9aLdBOyKfQwAfmSOboP2iKcKxiu5e)KzKtSw0reEzFCIFYa7JStvun1x1KnYdoq0qgbnHFeqmtfRnEXWjRHJRB3g)Cs9XB3CBd


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Zulabro
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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I see you creepin Shan. How are you feeling damage wise? Our T16 2 piece is accounting for ~6% of absorbs on myself. Feels kinda blegh, but I guess its better than nothing. I also got the Juggernaut Focusing Crystal which replaced the RoR. Its giving me about 4% heals with 70% overhealing, so basically it isn't worth a damn unless I'm getting my face smashed in.

Hows your Keg Smashing?
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re: Brewmasters' International Beer Garden

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Zulabro wrote:
I see you creepin Shan. How are you feeling damage wise? Our T16 2 piece is accounting for ~6% of absorbs on myself. Feels kinda blegh, but I guess its better than nothing. I also got the Juggernaut Focusing Crystal which replaced the RoR. Its giving me about 4% heals with 70% overhealing, so basically it isn't worth a damn unless I'm getting my face smashed in.

Hows your Keg Smashing?


I told you your tier was bad noob Happy
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